16 Comments

• Monkey says:

  August 27, 2010 at 2:30 PM

  prove it

  Reply
  • daggius says:

    August 27, 2010 at 3:24 PM

    http://stats.maide.ca/clans/index/

    Reply
• S2Nome says:

  August 27, 2010 at 4:03 PM

  Pretty interesting statistics. This is definitely worth looking into, so if anyone comes up with good solutions we’re definitely up for deeper investigation.

  Reply
• daggius says:

  August 27, 2010 at 4:57 PM

  Nome my take on it is there is a slight advantage due to Kongor being on Hellbourne side. Not as much as these stats make it look like, or we would see it on every player’s stats not just the ones from top teams, which is not the case.

  Top teams like Hellbourne side better because of Kongor advantage and so they try to play that side as much as possible in competition. The times when they play Legion they are in less serious games where they don’t care as much about winning, or they are playing against another good team that wanted Hellbourne just as much and so their game as Legion is less likely to be won. This would explain why the win% is so much higher.

  To fix the problem Kongor issue I think he should be put in a completely neutral location. Or what about having a Kongor spot on the Legion side too and have him spawn there every other time? Or of course we could have a competitive map where the two sides are just mirror images of each other.

  It would also be interesting to see win percentages on Darkwood Vale, if it was ever used for comp play, since Kongor is in what seems to be like a completely neutral position (the middle) on this map.

  Reply
• Anonymous says:

  August 28, 2010 at 6:34 AM

  Legion top ganking mid is almost impossible wheras Hellbourne bot ganking mid is extremely easy.

  Hellbourne top can gank mid without going through the tower, Legion bot can’t.

  Reply
• Anonymous says:

  August 29, 2010 at 8:29 PM

  Yep one thing I notice when playing roamer is it’s alot easier to roam hellbourne…

  hb bottom->mid is very easy because the trees provide the perfect gank spot.
  hb top->mid alittle harder depending but not too bad.

  Legion top->mid not bad, the hill is nice, and you can even get there without running past a ward.
  Legion bot->mid really really bad, you’re forced to run through the tower (breaking striders) and take alot of damage.

  But I’m not the a pro player so I’m not the one to talk to.

  Reply
• S2Nome says:

  August 30, 2010 at 12:49 PM

  I’ve been a longtime advocate of reworking the map to be mirrored. There’s so many inconsistencies between the two sides that the only dependable way to fix them all is to mirror the map. I feel like this would be received with a lot of anger though. I don’t know what to do about Kongor though. The problem with having it spawn “randomly” in one of two spots is that we don’t want players to blame a win/loss on Kongor’s RNG’d spawn position. The new 3v3 map doesn’t even have a boss… that’s how we’re dealing with that issue

  Reply
• daggius says:

  August 30, 2010 at 1:42 PM

  Yeah there’s not an easy way to fix Caldavar without probably messing it up for a lot of people.

  A new map that’s completely symmetric would definitely be awesome for competitive games.

  Reply
• Anonymous says:

  August 30, 2010 at 6:13 PM

  Make a portal, in an equally balanced spot that teleports you to “Kongors Lair”.

  Really though, the Kongor issue is probably the smallest of the problem, I doubt that he attributes much win % difference on either side, compared to the enormous other imbalances. In other words, even just not changing Kongor but mirroring otherwise would be good.

  Reply
• Anonymous says:

  August 30, 2010 at 7:54 PM

  One of the big problems I don’t see often mentioned are the sight blockers in Hellbourne ancients prevent useful warding of the ancient creeps WRT the Legion team compared to a similar ward overlooking Legion ancients that covers a rune, the ancients and part of mid.

  Reply
• Anonymous says:

  August 30, 2010 at 11:04 PM

  A lot of games are also determined by rune RNG too though. Mid can easily be determined by the zero second rune, and I don’t know how many games I’ve won through a lucky late game DD. The Kongor RNG isn’t quite as terrible as it seems.

  Hellbourne also has an advantage because of the second creep pull camp (legion only has one).

  Reply
• Child_Hunter says:

  September 2, 2010 at 2:25 PM

  Legion has 2 as well, one is from the big spawn mid, and the short lane bottom. They cannot be used effectively together being on opposite sides although

  Reply
• CronoDroid says:

  September 8, 2010 at 11:05 PM

  I always prefer Hellbourne because of:

  1. Easier jungling (two creep pulls, quicker access from the easy spawn to the medium lane camp and the ward spot is not as good as the Legion one)

  2. Easy access to the Secret Shop as mid (cut a tree, grab Life/Manatube, Glowstone, Beastheart, etc)

  3. Harder to gank mid

  4. Kongor

  Reply
• Torkel says:

  September 14, 2010 at 4:38 PM

  I feel the Kongor advantage for Hellborne is really really stupid. Hellborne having Kongor’s lair in their own backyard gives them full control. They can easily check him without exposing themselves, they can approach him from several different sides, they can often times sneak into his lair without passing through a bot rune ward or even leap/blink in. Just the difference in distance between base and lair can be crippling for Legion, not to mention the fact that Hellborne will know far in advance if Legion wants to even get in range to smell Kongor through only one of several ward spots. Hellborne has proximity to towers, high ground, ancients, secret shop and everything around Kongor. Legion has proximity to Hellborne’s backyard and grave danger. Watch a few replays and count Hellborne vs Legion Kongor kills… it’s the biggest imbalance in hon atm =/

  Reply
• MrBigHuge says:

  September 19, 2010 at 1:14 AM

  I feel like it’s worth noting that [in my worthless opinion] stacking ancients is just…better as hellbourne, neutral farming in general is just safer as hellbourne. You have 3-4 common ward spots versus legion which show you (I mean REALLY show you) when someone is creeping, when the hellbourne side has 1.

  Reply
• Dotally Rad » Reuenthal buries all doubt of Hellbourne advantage — with pie charts says:

  October 6, 2010 at 9:42 AM

  [...] rolling on thoroughly debunking such nonsense by pointing out, using Maide’s own stats, that the vast majority of good players win more when they play Hellbourne.  You can’t let these monkeys throw one piece of poo or before you know it there’s a [...]

  Reply